MusicLobby 4 Bug Reports and Feature Requests

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Art Dustman
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Re: MusicLobby 4 Bug Reports and Feature Requests

Postby Art Dustman » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:58 pm

Ok. So let me rephrase. Let's leave playlists out for now

I have a directory called \\mediaserver\music\good

Itunes uses this as the main directory and I let it "keep in organized"
I point MLserver to \\mediaserver\music\good

Which means that they "share" the same music location. Is that your setup?

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Re: MusicLobby 4 Bug Reports and Feature Requests

Postby jeffdoo » Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:26 pm

Art Dustman wrote:Ok. So let me rephrase. Let's leave playlists out for now

I have a directory called \\mediaserver\music\good

Itunes uses this as the main directory and I let it "keep in organized"
I point MLserver to \\mediaserver\music\good

Which means that they "share" the same music location. Is that your setup?


Yes. But, the share is read-only and iTunes does not "organize" the library.

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Re: MusicLobby 4 Bug Reports and Feature Requests

Postby Art Dustman » Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:13 pm

In the itunes folder, check for a folder called "automatically add to itunes" and see if there are sub-folder in there, then check to see if those folders have music files in them

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Re: MusicLobby 4 Bug Reports and Feature Requests

Postby DaveB » Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:54 pm

Jeff; Some iTunes pointers from what i have learned about the interaction between ML and iTunes;

1. Turn off "keep files organized" in iTunes
2. iTunes music should be in a "Music" folder, which actually may be a sub folder to the main iTunes storage location.
3. Point Music Lobby to the top of the root. It will look at everything under the root.
4. Music Lobby will monitor the location and add music to ML as you add music via iTunes.
5. If there are any Album Titles with special characters, they will not import properly. You may need to change the metadata prior to running the scan.
6. Be careful when doing your edits in Content Manager. Make sure that you do not change the Title of an album. If you do, you will end up with a duplicate album after the next scan.
7. With Windows, search *.m4a This will expose all areas that contain music.
8. When doing your scan, make sure iTunes is not running.
9. If your music is under the MyMusic directory then windows media player will lock the directory. We have not found a good way to unlock the directory, so moving items around is difficult, thanks to Microsoft.
Thanks!

Dave Bruner
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Re: MusicLobby 4 Bug Reports and Feature Requests

Postby jeffdoo » Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:54 pm

Art Dustman wrote:In the itunes folder, check for a folder called "automatically add to itunes" and see if there are sub-folder in there, then check to see if those folders have music files in them


It's not possible for there to be an "iTunes folder" as iTunes simply catalogs the read-only directories on the file server (\\europa\music).

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Re: MusicLobby 4 Bug Reports and Feature Requests

Postby jeffdoo » Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:04 pm

DaveB wrote:Jeff; Some iTunes pointers from what i have learned about the interaction between ML and iTunes;

1. Turn off "keep files organized" in iTunes
2. iTunes music should be in a "Music" folder, which actually may be a sub folder to the main iTunes storage location.
3. Point Music Lobby to the top of the root. It will look at everything under the root.
4. Music Lobby will monitor the location and add music to ML as you add music via iTunes.
5. If there are any Album Titles with special characters, they will not import properly. You may need to change the metadata prior to running the scan.
6. Be careful when doing your edits in Content Manager. Make sure that you do not change the Title of an album. If you do, you will end up with a duplicate album after the next scan.
7. With Windows, search *.m4a This will expose all areas that contain music.
8. When doing your scan, make sure iTunes is not running.
9. If your music is under the MyMusic directory then windows media player will lock the directory. We have not found a good way to unlock the directory, so moving items around is difficult, thanks to Microsoft.


Dave,

I think lots of confusion has been introduced now .....

1) iTunes does not and has NEVER managed my music.
2) There is no iTunes folder
3) MusicLobby is pointed to the same server and directories it's used for years (\\europa\music\library.mp3, \\europa\music\library.aac, etc)
4) iTunes isn't installed on the home automation computer only the personal workstations so each person can manage their own playlists and ratings
5) Well, I guess this is the killer part... what characters is MusicLobby unable to handle?
6) I never edit via Content Manager, only the two tag editors I trust via a different mount point
7) Irrelevant
8) iTunes does not exist on the home automation computer
9) Irrelevant

Question #5 is the only thing I find relevant because all of my songs are titled appropriately and is something I consider very important (ie; celtic music).

Thanks....

- Jeff

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Re: MusicLobby 4 Bug Reports and Feature Requests

Postby DaveB » Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:12 pm

The one single thing you said in that connected computers use iTunes means that it is highly likely that your library has been changed due to iTunes. You do not necessarily need to have run iTunes on your native machine.

Also, you should use content manager if you are running v4 of ML/MLS. It will provide a much better experience.

And a side note - I have had a very difficult experience with Celtic music. Many entertainers tend to use the same album/song names which really confuses everything, and the disks have terrible metadata. My library is full of Celtic Music as my daughter is a world champ Irish dancer. She uses the music for practice.
Thanks!

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Re: MusicLobby 4 Bug Reports and Feature Requests

Postby Art Dustman » Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:39 pm

Thanks Dave... I was slowly heading into the whole Itunes/ML interaction. Generally speaking they are tricky to get to work together without duplicates showing up or other strange issues. There are many factors at play for sure, but some of the things I have noticed are below. Of course your mileage will vary, so good luck.

1. I keep all my music on a media server that itunes points to, and I allow it to keep it organized, since it does a good job.
2. I never edit/change/purchase/etc any music while musiclobby is "watching the folder"
3. Reason for #2 is I get odd results with covers and duplicates. So it's best to get the content right in itunes first, then let ML look at it.
4. Don't let Itunes download missing artwork, I have had bad results having ML later see that (again, your mileage may vary here)
5. I personally use Tuneup, though not perfect, it works fairly well with the exception of compilations - so I let TuneUp fix my CD rips
6. Once I am done, let ML see my database again, and it will import properly
7. If I see strange imports, I can "cut" the entire subdirectory with the music out, paste outside where ML sees it - then watch for the MLworker to remove the files - check in mainlobby and it should not be there
8. Paste back in the folder exactly where it was, and let mainlobby re-import (this also keeps Itunes happy because it still is "in the same place"

What I have done is also to keep a "virgin" copy of musiclooby database sans and playlists and directories to monitor and keep that handy. Sometimes a clean db with a fresh import works well. If it imports wrong, something else is going on. You can also import a specific subfolder for diagnosis as well.

****CAUTION***** Since I often "move" music files around, I drop them into the "automatically add to itunes" folder, whereby itunes dumps them into itunes automatically. Sometimes it fails, and goes into the "Not added" folder. ML DOESN'T CARE, and since it's a monitored subfolder, will add it to musiclobby db!

It would be nice if we could "pause" the autoimport feature at will in musiclobby, as well as specify to ignore the "automatically add to itunes folder" - I one day realized so many duplicates were due to this problem alone
Also, it would be great to save a default config, then do a clean sweap and re-import.

Again, just my 2 cents - if any helps, great -- if not i only wasted 10 mins and half a beer.

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Re: MusicLobby 4 Bug Reports and Feature Requests

Postby jeffdoo » Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:47 pm

DaveB wrote:The one single thing you said in that connected computers use iTunes means that it is highly likely that your library has been changed due to iTunes. You do not necessarily need to have run iTunes on your native machine.


As I've said before, iTunes cannot touch anything since the mount point is read-only as defined on the server, there is no way around this fact. I don't trust iTunes, MusicLobby, or any other music program with our library. Too much time and effort has been spent ripping these CDs consistently and getting the metadata as close to "perfect" as possible to have someone else thinking they know better "fixing" things for me. There is an alternate mount point (\\europa\music.new) which only I can access for copying over new songs as per my discretion or making corrections to the metadata if I find a mistake. All CDs are ripped on my workstation, metadata adjusted, and then moved to the server. Then I go to each workstation (including mine) and, through iTunes, add the new folder(s) accordingly.

DaveB wrote:Also, you should use content manager if you are running v4 of ML/MLS. It will provide a much better experience.

And a side note - I have had a very difficult experience with Celtic music. Many entertainers tend to use the same album/song names which really confuses everything, and the disks have terrible metadata. My library is full of Celtic Music as my daughter is a world champ Irish dancer. She uses the music for practice.


I don't have a large Celtic music collection but it's my go-to when MusicLobby has been having problems. Which I haven't done this time because the problem seems to be (I thought) the Initialize Database through the server app is failing to run properly.

Honestly, thanks for taking the time to try any help....

- Jeff

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Re: MusicLobby 4 Bug Reports and Feature Requests

Postby jeffdoo » Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:52 pm

Art Dustman wrote:Again, just my 2 cents - if any helps, great -- if not i only wasted 10 mins and half a beer.


The time hasn't been wasted, your setup is different but it's good to see and beer is never a wasted unless it's spilled on the ground....

- Jeff

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Re: MusicLobby 4 Bug Reports and Feature Requests

Postby jeffdoo » Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:00 pm

DaveB wrote:Also, you should use content manager if you are running v4 of ML/MLS. It will provide a much better experience.


Dave,

I'm just going to explain everything so hopefully we avoid confusion....

1. I created a New Age/Celtic playlist in iTunes
2. I exported my playlist from iTunes in XML format to \\europa\userdata\jeff\playlists
3. MuL picked up the new playlist
4. ML - I cleared Server #1 and added the playlist to Server #1
5. Both playlists (MuL and iTunes) show 518 tracks
5. I started going through comparing by hand
6. In the first 26 of 58 pages there are 8 songs in MuL which are incorrect
7. None of the 8 songs contains any "special" characters (BUT, there are many accented letters in other songs which are handled just fine!!)
8. I test each of the 8 MuL missing songs and verify they play perfectly fine w/Windows Media Player on my workstation

Deciding this part is fruitless and I still think the problem is the MuL Initialize Database failing, I decided to try your idea and fire up the Content Manager.

1. I fire up Content Manager
2. Go-to the music tab
3. Go-to music settings
4. Tools -> Initialize Database
5. Exit Content Manager
6. Start Content Manager
7. Go-to the music tab
8. All music is gone, woo hoo....

Return to MuL and have it begin importing our whole library. Compared to prior executions this is taking significantly longer and is still running at the moment.

The family is wanting a movie so I'll have to pick this up later tonight/tomorrow. But, thanks for the Content Manager pointer as it appears that tool can properly initialize the database.

- Jeff

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Re: MusicLobby 4 Bug Reports and Feature Requests

Postby DaveB » Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:06 pm

7. None of the 8 songs contains any "special" characters (BUT, there are many accented letters in other songs which are handled just fine!!)


That is the issue; It does not handle accented characters well at all. When I referred to "Special" I actually was referring to "Accented". I had to change all titles and song names to non-accented characters. This is the reason for your duplication.
Thanks!

Dave Bruner
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Re: MusicLobby 4 Bug Reports and Feature Requests

Postby jeffdoo » Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:30 am

DaveB wrote:That is the issue; It does not handle accented characters well at all. When I referred to "Special" I actually was referring to "Accented". I had to change all titles and song names to non-accented characters. This is the reason for your duplication.


I cannot believe this or any other application cannot handle accented or special characters. I've personally developed application which supported five different languages without an issue...

Regarding the current situation:

1. MusicLobby App does NOT properly initialize the database
2. Content Manager does NOT properly remove the playlists when initializing the database, it removes the playlist directories settings!
3. MusicLobby App does properly import (to the best of my knowledge) all of my music, accented characters included.
4. MusicLobby App does NOT properly process the playlists. Unfortunately it's going to take me more time to continue to debug this one but at the moment, none of the incorrect songs have accented characters. All of the songs are in the database... so something is wrong in the playlist import? I may have to figure out how to access the MS SQL database, all of my database experience is 20 years of DB2 and a few with Oracle.

Will continue to keep you updated, but 1-3 above are confirmed by myself if anyone else wishes to take the time to replicate so folks will believe me.

Thanks

- Jeff

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Re: MusicLobby 4 Bug Reports and Feature Requests

Postby DaveB » Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:23 am

I can assure you that Dave spent many hours remoted into my system this week on this very issue. The end result was accented characters in a song or album title and title changes after using content manager. The fix was to remove the accented characters and to change all album titles back to there original form as cataloged in the database. All duplicates then stopped and all tracks were then picked up.

With my system, all is well now. I certainly am not seeing errors to the extent that you are reporting. Maybe your next step is to email Dave and provide specific examples and ask for additional assistance.

I am sorry, but other than Daves' input, I am not sure that any of us can assist you any further with your issues.
Thanks!

Dave Bruner
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Re: MusicLobby 4 Bug Reports and Feature Requests

Postby jeffdoo » Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:38 am

DaveB wrote:I can assure you that Dave spent many hours remoted into my system this week on this very issue. The end result was accented characters in a song or album title and title changes after using content manager. The fix was to remove the accented characters and to change all album titles back to there original form as cataloged in the database. All duplicates then stopped and all tracks were then picked up.

With my system, all is well now. I certainly am not seeing errors to the extent that you are reporting. Maybe your next step is to email Dave and provide specific examples and ask for additional assistance.

I am sorry, but other than Daves' input, I am not sure that any of us can assist you any further with your issues.


Dave,

I truly do appreciate the help and hopefully the other Dave will chime in, but the base functionality of MusicLobby has a problem which I think need to be resolved first: "Initialize the database" properly when using MuL App or CM (neither works properly). If I can't start with a clean database it will be impossible to resolve these issues.

A new discovery this morning, the MusicLobby App re-scanned my entire library @ 3am this morning (Saturday).... Is this normal? I don't have anything scheduled to automatically re-scan our library. I personally don't mind but this re-scan has introduced duplicates for any song which contains brackets ([]) in the name. My immediate assumption (which could be wrong) is that this is similar to the defect Dave fixed regarding playlists with artist/album/titles containing brackets. My small sample of accented characters do not show duplicates after the automated re-scan. I'm attaching three screen captures from Content Manager to provide proof so you'll know I'm seeing things, accented is fine and brackets are broken.... (Note: the Kenny example is two discs)

I'll install debug code, extra logging code, drop my automation rules for the Nuvo GC, etc. to help get this working right with "special" characters.

If Dave requires a direct eMail so be it, I've been under the assumption for years this was the mechanism to report defects....

Thanks!

- Jeff
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