More Generic Device Licensing...

A plugin that allows for end user development of multiple RS232 device control systems.
MurrayW
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Postby MurrayW » Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:11 pm

Reviving this one more time. I am sure glad that the DirecTV Plugin was developed and is available for $40 for an unlimited number of DirecTV set top boxes.

But if it had not been developed and I wanted to control my STB's serially (and wanted to go with a supported plugin that Cinemar would support going forward vs. the free MLGenericSerial), it would have cost me $240 for my 4 boxes...and I would have had to develop the plugin.

Something just doesn't seem right here when I can plop down $40 and do no work on my own vs. $240 and have to come up with all the commands and logic myself.

Any chance of rethinking the licensing on this plugin?

Murray

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DavidL
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Postby DavidL » Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:25 pm

That's what's nice about owning popular hardware that there are decent odds that a custom plugin exists for it.

MLGenericDevice was to bridge the gap for where there is no custom plugin.

Haven't found the licensing model that works for all purposes. So, it is what it is at least for now.

Your dilemma is "worse case" of multiple same devices, different comports. Don't have an easy answer other than a "volume" purchase discount (which is doable).

MurrayW
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Postby MurrayW » Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:46 pm

DavidL wrote:That's what's nice about owning popular hardware that there are decent odds that a custom plugin exists for it.
And by that argument, you could say that MLGenericDevice is a custom plugin that fits a lot more hardware than all of the other plugins combined, making it the plugin that supports the most popular hardware.

DavidL wrote:Your dilemma is "worse case" of multiple same devices, different comports. Don't have an easy answer other than a "volume" purchase discount (which is doable).
So what is the "volume" purchase discount? Could an individual user ever have enough comports to qualify for a volume discount or would this only apply to dealers? I still have about 6 other comports that I am either using the MLGenericSerial or not controlling serially at the moment. Would 6 qualify for a volume discount?

I am not trying to be argumentative, but not sure I want to spend that much money to cover everything.

thanks,
Murray

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Postby mwebster » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:15 pm

The ability to use all of the com ports in scripts for one price would be great.

MurrayW
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Postby MurrayW » Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:56 pm

DavidL,
Could you answer my question on volume discounts and if a single user would ever be able to qualify?
thanks,
Murray

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Postby MurrayW » Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:46 pm

MurrayW wrote:DavidL,
Could you answer my question on volume discounts and if a single user would ever be able to qualify?
thanks,
Murray
Am I posting this in the wrong forum? I have posted here and in another thread and this seems to me that you are just ignoring it. I am just following up on something that you suggested.

thanks,
Murray

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Postby DavidL » Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:35 pm

Sorry Murray, just no time to do the subject due justice. Gotta think on this one for a bit.

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Postby ricks » Fri Jul 04, 2008 4:05 pm

Is a year long enough to think about it?

http://www.cinemaronlineforums.com/foru ... highlight=

Sorry, couldn't resist. :D

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Postby DavidL » Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:54 pm

Ok, so here is a volume discount.

Purchase either 3 Advanced or 3 Basic License types (unfortunately no way to mix and match) and get a price discount. Only applies for a single transaction (so buy what you need in bulk)

http://www.cinemarsolutions.com/mlserve ... evice.html

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Postby kgudge » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:03 pm

the number of new plugins available, shows that either

a) people using cinemar dont share, a quick look elsewhere on the forum shows this isnt generally the case.

b) the model sucks and people simply use ir or the unsupported alternative.

I personally think b)

I'm sure if cinemar rewarded its more advanced users for creating new plugins not penalized them, the supported devices list would be massive.

I can understand the system integrators not sharing, it is their living but a significant proportion of the cinemar community are users who would/could benefit from a re-think.

Hell even cinemar would benefit, more devices means more potential customers, popular devices could be quickly identified and converted to real plugins, you guys write a generic serial device framework, take our plugins command and response codes and voila new plugin. Surely just for this marketing data and development head start a re-think is in order.

Even the system integrators would join the party if they could see revenue/rewards from publishing (via cinemar) their plugins.

A simple requirements template would be issued by cinemar, stating the testing and documentation required for a plugin to be published. Cinemar would own the rights once reward is issued.

My thinking is you get your initial fee refunded upon approval. If made a real plugin you get it free. You get 1 additional licence for each ten sold or goods to the value off. That should get the si communty interested.


8)

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Postby DavidL » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:02 pm

The other possibility is that Cinemar already has the majority of the popular equipment handled with custom plugins.

Building a serial driver is not for the timid. I don't think there are very many that are technical or relentless enough.

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Postby kgudge » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:36 pm

So you have tvs, cable boxes and projectors all covered then? I'll be watching for the new plugins, it will save me a lot of time and effort.

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Postby mwebster » Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:12 am

Building a serial driver is not for the timid. I don't think there are very many that are technical or relentless enough.


Here's an example of why I'd like to see some way to use my com ports in a more integrated manner with MLS.

I have a DSC security system with the pc5401 and a plugin is not available through Cinemar. So my choice was to either purchase mlgenericdevice or re-install homeseer and purchase their dsc plugin and the plugin to talk back and forth with ML. Since Mlgenericdevice isn't worth the money to me and I'd rather not sink time into two home automation packages, I wrote my own program to do what I needed. I'm not a professional programmer, but it works well enough to make me happy. It's main bugs center around how I get data in and out of MLServer.

If a plugin was available and priced fairly, I would have bought it. At the same time, if another user would have written a script, or a plugin that I could have freely downloaded. I would have done that instead. I'd guess that's the problem.

I'd agree that something like MLInsteonPLM is way past my skills, but something with a simple serial protocol (like most tv's, receivers,...) is very doable by most that use ML. I think that those using Cinemar software are technical and relentless by default.

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Postby bjdraw » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:36 am

kgudge wrote:the number of new plugins available, shows that either

a) people using cinemar dont share, a quick look elsewhere on the forum shows this isnt generally the case.

b) the model sucks and people simply use ir or the unsupported alternative.

I personally think b)


I'm a B, I use MLGenericSerial to control my two TVs and Matrix Switch.
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Re: More Generic Device Licensing...

Postby Art Dustman » Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:20 pm

Strolling through and thought I would add to this.

I have 3 inverters to connect (solar), 1 Pentair pool controller, 1 matrix switcher, 2 ocelots, 1 serial reciever, and an Epson serial projector.

This would be 9 devices!! $$$$$

I would love to write the serial drivers, but I don't want to invest a huge amount in this. First, as you know, a lot of this is based upon expectations of how it "may" work. And even then, you may find another alternative that works better. I can't tell you if I can even tie the data from 3 solar inverters together, but I would like to try. Point is, most of this is tinkering.

Also, talking about mainstream products - The inverters are Xantrex, the pool controller is Pentair, Ocelot is mainstream (at least to me), and so are Epson projectors. Serial drivers, nope. This is where we run into issues. It would be great to "tinker" with an unlimted number of devices, work out the bugs within a sandbox in mainlobby, and use a license when it is deployed. I think it should be somewhere around $150 for the unlimited environment with logging to test, and only charge $15 per deployed device. (2 deployments included)

And when you submit 3 devices to the good of the forum, get a free deployment.

See how many "other" supported deviced get added then, because the list now is dismal.

Just my thoughts....

[-o<


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