I cant even get a light to turn on. HELP please !!!

Plugin for the HAI family of security panels
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I cant even get a light to turn on. HELP please !!!

Postby Ranger Home Automation » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:30 pm

I have a button programmed (ok ok, i know cinemar doesnt call it programming, but i do) in the mlservecmd line with:

MLServeCmd.MLHAI|ALC~1~4

I do have an alc light named "1". I can get it to turn on from the console panel, so i know the system itself is set up correctly. I have gone thru all the manuals and wiki and I am still lost. Hopelessly.

I sure wish there were more instructions on how to get things to work. I can read all the command lines till I am blue, and understand their syntax but it does me know good if I dont really know where they go or how to make them work.

When I look under server variables in mls, there are only two. Shouldnt there be more or do I have to put that in there too? I am so lost. I have all this fancy software and all I can do is get the five day forecast (and other weather things, pretty easy stuff there) LOL


can someone walk me thru at least getting a single light to turn on? thanks!!

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Postby DavidL » Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:08 pm

Example: MLServeCmd.MLHAI|ALC~1~4~50m
(from the Wiki).

You were missing the last portion of the command. Start with what's in the documentation and get that working before "exploring" derivitives.

The above can be tested in the MLServer Send Commands field.

Did you setup the HAI as per the install directions in the WIKI?
Is the HAI panel programmed? That comes first.
The zones programmed into the HAI are what variables the HAI plugin may create, if selected in the HAI plugin setup window. If you have none programmed or selected, then no variables will be created.

Without more info from you on what you did / didn't do, hard to advise further.

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Postby Ranger Home Automation » Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:19 pm

smoothtlk wrote:Example: MLServeCmd.MLHAI|ALC~1~4~50m
(from the Wiki).

You were missing the last portion of the command. Start with what's in the documentation and get that working before "exploring" derivitives.

The above can be tested in the MLServer Send Commands field.

Did you setup the HAI as per the install directions in the WIKI?
Is the HAI panel programmed? That comes first.
The zones programmed into the HAI are what variables the HAI plugin may create, if selected in the HAI plugin setup window. If you have none programmed or selected, then no variables will be created.

Without more info from you on what you did / didn't do, hard to advise further.


Dave, I did try the full wiki version exactly as stated, I failed to tell you that. I tried it as posted as well. I really dont understand the 50m part. does that mean it will stay on for 50 minutes or it will turn off in fifty minutes?

Yes sir, I set up the hai as wiki states. I believe anyway, lol. I can see my panel in mls, watch the log, see the thermostat, etc. If I can see all that, am I correct in assuming I set it up according to wiki?

I am testing a table top setup. i have one zone ( light), one thermostat, one motion sensor and one console. all appear in the mls plugin when I look at them.

Here is the log after sending the command to turn on light 1:

Got ALC~1~4
ALC
1
4
ALC command is received

But, the light doesnt come on. I hope this aids in some way. I figure if i can get a couple commands down, the rest may come easy. Course I thought that after the weatherpug it but its almost plug and play (which is a GREAT thing).

I have no programming done in my on-q software but i can turn on and off the light and change the thermostat with the on-q software. I am sure its a simple fix and its only do to my lack of education on this software. im tryin!! :)

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Postby mcascio » Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:22 pm

One thing, make sure you don't have their software running before you start MLServer. Only one program will work at a time.
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Postby Ranger Home Automation » Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:27 pm

mario. i did not know that. i turned off the pc installers software from on-q.

still no light. i will keep trying.

Since the on-q software is ethernet and the mls is serial, i didnt think it would matter. but thats for letting me know.

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Postby Ranger Home Automation » Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:30 pm

dave, the reason i tried it withOUT the end of the command as stated in wiki is it gave me this:

Got ALC~1~4~50m
ALC
1
4
50m
ALC command is received
DoALC command over serial cable
DoALC command is unsuccessful

after I took out the ~50 it appeared to get me farther. not sure if it means anything.

Got ALC~1~4
ALC
1
4
ALC command is received

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Any more advice??

Postby Ranger Home Automation » Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:21 am

Maybe the problem is that ml cant see the alc lights since they are not in a zone but on an EX-Scene lighting interface? i cant see in the plug in where i let mls know i have alc lights. Or does it know auto once i give a command unit1?

Please, can anyone shed some light?

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Postby Ranger Home Automation » Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:09 pm

lights working but not under ALC but under unit. makes no sense to me. but it works. still havent figured out what time means, ie ~50m

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Postby ricks » Sat Jul 14, 2007 8:31 pm

Hi Tuck,

I don't use ALC, actually don't know many that do, but I believe time should be "ramp time". The MLHAI docs look deceiving when then say "50m or 2h" because with those times you'll be waiting a long time for the light to come on fully. Try 1 second (1s). The light will go from Off to On in 1 second. For a smoother ramp you could go with 2 or 3 seconds.

Due to the nature of the HAI polling I don't use the MLHAI plugin for lighting, way too slow to respond. Again, may be different since you're using ALC. Even with my thermostat I can't get a variable update for 6 seconds with all polling set to 1 second. Makes you want to press it again like Elevator Syndrome... more presses = faster response :?

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Postby Ranger Home Automation » Sat Jul 14, 2007 8:43 pm

rick, thanks. I first thought 50m stood for fifty minutes, and 2h, well you know. but thats not right. maybe its miliseconds or something but no matter what i change it too its the same. what is different is the time it takes each time i do it. i mean, with the same exact setting and no changes, sometimes its almost instant while the next time i push on or off it can take up to two seconds. not sure why as polling shouldnt have anything to do with it. i am not asking status, just sending an on or off signal. i could be wrong on my thoughts.

i can live with the slight delay on the lights. no big deal. what SUCKS is the 15 seconds it takes to get an update on temperature or other readings from the thermostat. wiht the on-q software its instant, with ml it is very slow. again, this IS a polling issue of hai and not a fault of ml. when i send the command from ml, the transactions is almost instant, its just getting the info back that is very painful.

i have a pretty long thread on other issues, some of which i have figured out, under the server forum. made TREMENDOUS progress today! first time i have been happy with a days work on ml. lol. gettin the basics down. baby steps. after that, i think its all gonna be alot easier.

i love alc and i think hardwired is the way to go. on future projects i may consider elk with on-q alc interfaces as the elk sends changes out thru serial instantly where as on-q/hai does not. they have to be ASK "what changed", as i understand it.

thanks for the input!

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Postby ricks » Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:30 pm

Sounds good!

I do question the whole polling delay with MLHAI though. I also use HomeSeer and the HomeSeer HAI plugin is instant for actions and updates for both security and TStats. Both MLHAI and Homeseer's plugin were built from the same HAI SDK so there is something wrong with how MLHAI handles the data.

I think all of the Cinemar guys are Elk M1G users or I would guess this would have been resolved by now.

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Postby Ranger Home Automation » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:12 pm

ricks wrote:Sounds good!

I do question the whole polling delay with MLHAI though. I also use HomeSeer and the HomeSeer HAI plugin is instant for actions and updates for both security and TStats. Both MLHAI and Homeseer's plugin were built from the same HAI SDK so there is something wrong with how MLHAI handles the data.

I think all of the Cinemar guys are Elk M1G users or I would guess this would have been resolved by now.

Rick


rick, well now that VERY interesting!! given I have been told (in other forums) that added software MUST ask for info from hai/on-q therefore it will never be fast. and you have homeseer and its fast? yup, something can be done and hopefully will be done.

cinemar, you picking up on this request? LOL. I wonder if once the mlhai plugin goes ethernet (which it will someday given on-q's growth of marketshare, while not huge in HMS, its gaining some from what i understand and HAI has got a chunk as well, so its a must for ethernet,IMO). anyhoot, with ethernet will that solve part of the problem? I am not technical enough to know for sure, but tcp/ip is faster. hope that fixes it!

is the homeseer ethernet??? hows does it get its info so fast? VERY encouraging!!! so what and why do you use the hai plugin for? pretty graphics?

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Postby cborod » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:59 pm

This has been my beef since day 1 of this plugin......and no, Ethernet will not resolve it.

First...the omni controllers have to be polled. Polling takes time, cycles, etc butas mentioned before....How is it that Homeseer can
read and command buttons with proper syntax
respond immediately to zone state changes
Reflect unit state changes instantly

I own mlhai, WISH it was better, but for speed and reliability continue to rely on MLHSPlugin.

btw....HAI's own pcaccess software is faster and more reliable when serially connected. Thed Ethernet is subject to timouts and delays, whereas the serial is instantaneous.

As for MLHAI, I'd rather see development of usable, speedy features before time gets spent on the Ethernet idea.......rock solid serial with reliable commands is just fine with me. Give me buttons, zones that are secure (not on or off), and so on.

And no need to waste time trying to program via MLHAI.....pcaccess does just fine....keep MLHAI simple and focused. Read the state, control the device.....
ChrisB


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Postby Ranger Home Automation » Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:12 pm

amen! Great words and good advice. Maybe the squeaky wheel gets the oil? i have seen post after post about this issue. lets hope it gets off the back burner quicker and resolution is brought to the inefficiencies.

Please everyone let Cinemar know your desires, whatever they are. its one of the best ways for cinemar to know what the market wants, needs and/or demands. no one can argue that. they can take that input and crunch their own numbers, but if we dont speak up, they will have one less variable.

obviously there is a way to make mlhai work better. homeseer does it. so no excuses of it being an hai issue. it an mlhai issue.

for now i am just tickled pink that i got a few things working.

i will post my issues of alc vs unit later (unit wont dim but alc will, but turns off all the way). alc wont turn on but unit will. i have alc only. go figure. but off to bed.

great day!

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Postby ricks » Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:19 pm

I agree with Chris 100%. Not sure why HomeSeer appears so much quicker. Its serial and not IP based so I don't think that is the issue.

For example, I have incremental buttons for my thermostats. Up arrow, heat set point goes up 1 degree. Down arrow, down one degree. Although I haven't found this ability with the MLHAI plugin yet (increment/decrement), it is comparatively instant (maybe 1 second tops) in the HomeSeer plugin even though it has to communicate its status with ML through the MLHSPlugin. Even if MLHAI has this function, I can't imagine hitting the up arrow, wait 6 seconds, hit up arrow again, wait six seconds and so on. I have all of the polling values set to 1 second with only a few zones/tstats in MLHAI and it still doesn't help.

In MLHAI settings, make sure you uncheck any zones, temp sensors, etc that you don't have active on the panel. I think by default the plugin checks every zone and sensor. This may get you to 6 seconds!

I install HAI, Xantech, ADI and UPB systems for security, surveillance, life safety, lighting and whole house A/V in residential and small commercial. Would love to front-end everything with ML since it has the potential to add so many Life Sytle features but it just hasn't been working out. I use ML around the house since my family is much more tolerant than the folks that pay, usually! :wink:


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